It Don't Mean a Thing (If It Ain't Got That Swing)

[drousar]

Once in a while, when I am looking for a good read or some insight on WCS I visit Kelly Casanova's (Buckwalter) site as she often has some good writings that provoke thought.

She has a very interesting write-up on her site regarding swing content and her personal struggle as a judge. I find it very interesting and really made me think a lot about the dance as both a competitor and judge.

I didn't want to copy and paste the article since I didn't get permission and it's quite long, so here is the link.

http://www.kellydance.com/pages/westcoastswing.html

I am interested to know your initial thoughts upon reading it. I for one find a great appreciation hearing the viewpoint from someone who has known the dance for sometime, much before I came onto the scene. I saw the history thread, which is great, but I think this is more about where we are headed.

Looking forward to your posts.

[CrazyKate]

Doug, thanks for sharing - I wouldn't have found the article otherwise.

I really enjoy watching people swing dance, but I have trouble responding to show my enjoyment (clapping/cheering throughout the dance). On the other hand, it's much easier to clap immediately after a big trick on the flash & trash side of things; I usually choose not to, 'cause I don't want to reward that type of dancing with my applause or cheering. So, no matter what flavor the dance ends up being, I usually don't clap until the end of the dance.

I don't know what I think about a new dance splitting off from WCS... It feels odd, but I guess most new things do. I'll need to think on that more.

[coastswing]

The article was enjoyable. It does bring a bit of sadness to think about how far we've gotten from the root of swing and it's essence and we are all contributors to that fact.

So far every argument I read about the new style of dancing supports the ego. Or at least it does when defending it in comparing it to the foundation of WCS. All of the forums that have been discussed here, and perhaps ones to come, all relate to this change....whether it's the music changing, the influence of competitive oriented dancing, the 'play', and even in a society where we all want our 30 seconds of fame.....all of these things combined are making a new style dance which to me is phenomenal and full of extremely talented people. But what saddens me about it is that in order to create this new style many people are turning their noses up to the dance it's being born from. As some have to the dances that have contributed to the formation of WCS as well.

I hope that we as a whole can come up with a way to 'stitch' the community and find a way to have these styles co-exist. Many argue that they do with the "MIX" that's out there. But many of the places I've been to, the mix is becomes more and more weighted to the newer style.

[Kelly]

Doug, Great Article...I enjoyed reading it. I agree with Michael that its very sad to think that its come down to this. Its so true that what you see in classic and showcase, even the music, does not reflect anything of what the dance once was.

I personally think its rediculous when you see competitors crawling around on the floor or doing something not even remotely dance related during a competition because the crowd thinks its funny or to get them to cheer. Whats unforturnate it is that the dancers who do dance solid swing are not being rewarded.

But on the contrary, I was recently at an event on the west coast that had a fairly large champions strictly and for once those who danced "flash and trash" were not rewarded. Needless to say they were not happy (there was a prelim and final). Either way, maybe this is a sign that we maybe heading in a different direction.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Such mixed emotions.

Kelly admits that she was part of the group that led the charge away from the old style of the dance. I commend her for that. But at the same time, the damage is done - and there is no going back. In an effort to be relevant and in demand instructors, performers, and judges all pushed the envelope. The workshops taught "flash." The performers presented "flash." The judges rewarded "flash." So "flash" it is. They sold their soul. There is no refund.

Any solution that involves "taking back" classic & showcase and moving the "new" style to another division will fail....unless that new division gets the same (or more) prize $$$, and that new division gets the prime time slot at an event.

<rant>
At that point, you might as well just create an "old dogs" division (someone can come up with a better name) that can dance at 2pm on Saturday (don't want to keep them old timers up past their bedtime...) and ban lines, leans, tricks, syncopations, unpleasant music, gaudy costumes, and let 'em dance to music that is 130+bpm. Perhaps we can get a square dance caller to MC. :D
</rant>

I know, I'm being ridiculous.

The dance only survives if it grows. The dance only survives if it can attract new people. The "easiest" way to attract new people is to use the popular music at the time to draw them into the community, and to show them performances that "push the envelope" and that are very flashy. Maybe the community is finally willing to admit that the "easy" way is not going to preserve the foundation of the dance.

We are reaping what we have collectively sown. The music has changed. The people have changed. The dance has changed. They will not change back.

If you want to return to the roots of the dance..begin by demanding that all J&J and SS contests play music that is faster than 120bpm. That will help put some "swing technique" back into the contests. ;)

--Stan Graves

[coastswing]

They will not change back.
--Stan Graves

I believe a change will happen if, as Kelly put it, "the frogs jump out of the pot". All the events I've been to, whether the music is good hard swingin music or the "other" for my lack of music terminology, the floor is packed.

I don't think we're talking about the community as a whole that are changing this dance. It's the select ones that are trying to do the 'flash' as the norm as opposed to the entertainment/performance during routines. At most dances you scan the room and see the few couples that are doing all sorts of 'flash' yet the majority are not. They rely on the songs that provide the 'flash' yet most dancers just dance right over all that stuff. They'd be just as happy dancing to good hard swing.

If a beginner comes to this dance to learn it based on the 'flash', are you going to teach them how to do splits and slides right off the bat? I doubt it. You'll probably start off with the sugar-push/side-passes and whip. I've never asked a newcomer to a dance and then start doing slides. I stick with side passes and simpler technique. Show them that THEY TOO can do the dance instead of trying to get them to attempt something they're probably not ready for.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

I don't think we're talking about the community as a whole that are changing this dance. It's the select ones that are trying to do the 'flash' as the norm as opposed to the entertainment/performance during routines.

What is the "norm" today was "flash" 5 years ago. The "norm" is what has moved. Norm moved with the music, it moved with the workshops and instructors, and it moved with the athletic ability of the "next generation" of people who have come to this dance.

--Stan Graves

[Jerry Wang]

Doug - thanks for passing this along!

After reading this article, it has given me alot to think about as well as the same feeling of sadness about the type of message being delivered to the social scene by what is seen in Showcase, Classic and Invitational J&J. I admit I am guilty as an audience viewer I've clapped and cheered when a "cool move" was done. But if you see that cool move over and over again, it gets old (law of diminishing returns) so its not so impressive, forcing the pros/all stars to get creative to wow the audience. This also gives the impression that this is socially leadable with anyone. Resulting in people attempting the move without realizing the so-call tricks. There should be some kind of disclaimer or warning to the audience that "what we're about to see is not all socially leadable and please don't attempt it at home or the dance floor. These are professionals who are performing for the pleasure of the audience." :shades:

I don't necessarily agree with having to create two new dances since the way I see the so call new style to be as someone mentioned to me as "Hip Hop/Cirque Du Soleil with a partner". I believe that if we want to cut down on some of the nonsense we see, we need to stop rewarding the nonsense. I agree with Kelly since I was at the same event. At first I was surprised and upset but after some thought, I see what the intention was and support the direction the event and its judges were doing. I'm not saying not to be creative and have fun. But like our discussion about play, there is a proper place and time as well as balance between the amount of creative fun and swing content which I've seen done in the past. It just seems like in recent years, creative fun and theatrics has overshadowed the swing essence of West Coast Swing.

[BJW]

Well, this is sounding more and more like a pretty sensitive subject. I have only been dancing for almost 4 years (come August). In that time I have done a lot of watching. I watch videos of the old as I experience the new. I admit, the newer is more appealing to me. Not because of the "flash" necessarily. Some of the crazy moves are fun for a classic comp, such as when Tatiana slides Jordan halfway across the dance floor perfectly in sync with the music. Personally I tend to be less impressed with showcase. It feels almost like cabaret at times. Anyway...

Here is my point of view. I believe that the dance has "evolved". While understanding and celebrating the roots of the dance, I love seeing, practicing, and incorportating new moves; even if they are different and don't adhere to a perfect 6 or 8 count rythm.

I feel that a dancer IS INCABABLE of progressing to this level of dance without a great understanding of the basics, or as they should be called, roots of the dance. Without roots we don't have fruit. Think of our basics as the trunk of our dancing tree, and the syncopations and minor "flash" is the fruit. The majority of our dance is basic or fundamental, while the "flash" is the little extra that keeps us smirking out of the corner of our mouth while the audience reminds us what they like.

Different Point
I do feel that I notice things within a competition dance that deserve priase, and I don't here any clapping. Typically this happens when I whitness a very difficult pattern executed with amazing musicality but to the average swing dancer they have no idea the effort that pattern took. It is easier to reward a crazy slide because it is easier to observe that difficulty. No one has to try that pattern to undertsand that it took some serious practice.

I love how west coast swing has evolved, I love where it came from, and I celebrate both. I don't want to divide. There is already enough drama between westies and lindy folk.:cool:

[whipdancer]

<snip>....Any solution that involves "taking back" classic & showcase and moving the "new" style to another division will fail....unless that new division gets the same (or more) prize $$$, and that new division gets the prime time slot at an event.

That's not even remotely true. The answer is quite simple. Change the rules and then enforce them. The competitors will adapt. They always have.

The dance only survives if it grows. The dance only survives if it can attract new people. The "easiest" way to attract new people is to use the popular music at the time to draw them into the community, and to show them performances that "push the envelope" and that are very flashy.

The community must grow, and the dance will grow with it. But that's not an absolute. The "attract new people" problem has been on-going since before any of us started this dance, and will continue long after we are gone. But you don't have to push the envelope to attract people. Odds are they wouldn't know "pushing the envelope" if they saw it.


We are reaping what we have collectively sown. The music has changed. The people have changed. The dance has changed. They will not change back.

So true. But I think you're missing the point. I don't think anyone is asking to change it back. I think the request is to get back to the essence of the dance, and quit concentrating on the latest trick or fad. Swing rhythms, lead-follow, slotted, anchors - all aspects that could use a little more emphasis. You don't have to give up spice in the dance to remain true to the essence.

I'll make the food analogy - are you serving a steak with mushroom sauce, or are you serving mushroom sauce with some meat?

One thing that does stand out to me though, is I've met people who really DON'T like the swing part of WCS. They don't like blues or swing. They think the basics (sugar-push, whip, side-pass) are a waste of time - unless it's a setup to do the splits or something. They really like doing their own thing even at the expense of their partner. IMO, these dancers really don't want to do WCS, just something that kinda looks like it. These are the ones Kelly was referring to - WC, not WCS dancers.

[swinginstyle]

How do you begin defining what constitutes swing content?

[jmatthew]

Kind of a depressing read.

I wish I'd read it before she came to Portland, would have been an interesting discussion.

I disagree that there's "two dances."

For one, I think generalizing what the pros do in champions and showcase to the general populace is erroneous, and I don't consider what the pros do to determine "the state of the dance." I think that claim gets to go to other 99.999% of dancers.

As to what sometimes happens in the pro/champions/invitational ... I think the judges have to stand up for what they really want to see. It's pretty simple, people are going to emulate who wins.

I remember at an event (not to be named) when 2 of my favorite dancers (who can definately swing it) had a very entertaining, but not very swinging dance. 2 of my other favorite pros had a much less "exciting" but much better executed, much more swinging dance, and they won. A couple of very new dancers were suprised, but everyone else around them just let them know, it was cool, but it wasn't WCS.

The real challenge is to be both, insanely entertaining, music, and creative, and yet still be within the framework of WCS.

But isn't that always the challenge?

Of course, as a WCS/Lindy/Blues dancer I probably have a looser vision of what "swing" means also. I mean, is Charleston swing? Walks? Drags? Arials? :) Dangerous territory for discussion?

[swingdj]

Here is an article written by Kelly Casanova http://www.kellydance.com

It Don't Mean a Thing (If It Ain"t Got That Swing)

For many years I have been commenting on what I believe to be a lack of swing content in Classic and Showcase routines on the West Coast Swing dance circuit. As a judge, I often make notations on my sheet and give verbal feedback regarding this trend. I feel like I am like the proverbial boiled frog who, when thrown in boiling water jumps out and saves itself, but put in cold water that slowly heats up to boiling constantly trys to adjust to the incremental changes until it boils to death. Well, this boiled frog has resurrected and has officially jumped out of the pot. I started dancing West Coast Swing in 1980 when most of the dances I attended were band dances and most of the people attending were over 50. Several of the Bay Swingers told me at that time they thought their dance was going to die out until they saw a group of us from the UC Berkeley Swing Club attend their dances. At that time, David Anderson and I were teaching beginning lessons on campus and had hired our instructor, Tony Genero, to teach intermediate classes. Many of the people in those original classes, including Nick Lawrence, Art Snyder, Marla Bach (Saltztine), Alvin Low and many, many others formed a critical mass of younger people interested in the dance who later formed The Next Generation Swing Dance Club. We started dancing to live bands playing syncopated swing music; we also danced swing to the popular music of the time, disco or hustle music. One of the really wonderful things about West Coast Swing is its ability to morph according to the popular music of the time, while still being completely relevant to its original music. Over time, however, I believe this evolutionary benefit has created a dilemma. As popular music evolved to include funk, rap, techno and the like, so much of the dance has changed that many of us don't recognize what we see on the dance floor as West Coast Swing. In the 90"s many of us judges used a term called "Swustle" to describe what we were seeing on the competition dance floor in Showcase. These couples chose hustle music for their routine, used checks instead of anchors, and exchanged places with one another instead of using the traditional format of the leader staying in the middle of the slot allowing the follower to dance from end to end. We often penalized such couples for lack of swing content. As I recall, we never had this problem in the Classic division. Over time, I personally felt a lot of pressure by contestants who were pushing the envelope to have a creative edge over their competitors to accept "new" choreography as swing. Since I have always tried to expand my knowledge of the dance and remain current even when not competing, I made an effort to integrate much of the newer choreography into my definition of swing. At times, I have spoken out about what I have perceived as a lack of swing content in routines, but most of the time I was a minority voice and my scores as a result were out of line with many other judges. In an attempt to stay "current" and relevant as a judge I am guilty of going along with the pack and accepting many routines as swing that I felt really didnít capture the essence of the dance. This dichotomy has led to a great deal of angst and frustration over the past 5-10 years. Since I fully accept responsibility for contributing to the problem, I feel compelled to make an effort to contribute to a solution. I feel like I have betrayed my dance in order to be accepted as relevant by many of the top competitors. I am not so egotistical to think that Iím a major source of the problem; I am just one of many, many cogs in the machine that has created the problem our community now faces. Some other contributing factors are that the Country & Western community included West Coast Swing as one of their competition dances and so a huge Country influence affected the West Coast community. In addition to the music changes, competitors have been rewarded for creativity and so each year they have pushed the envelope further to please the audience and judges. Promoters changed rules so that the Champion or Invitational dancers did not have the required swing content percentage that all the other divisions required because they wanted a "show"; the exact phrase they used to competitors was, "Anything goes." The competitors found that entertaining the audience became more appreciated than good swing dancing, so they continued to push the envelope-many times crossing the line between good taste and good dancing into an area that I have found offensive on many levels. Personally, I find good swing dancing extremely entertaining. I would much rather watch great swing dancers (Mario Robau, Jack Carey, Annie Hirsch, Sharlot Bott, Randy & Lisa Clements, etc.) dance six count pass patterns, pushes, and basic eight count whips all night long rather than much of the sexually explicit/suggestive, acrobatic, crawling on the floor antics that I see so much of lately.

I cannot really blame the competitors as they are just responding to the positive feedback from the audience, and sometimes judging panel, for this type of behavior. In addition, television show like "So You Think You Can Dance", "Star Search", and "Dance Fever" encouraged competitors to push the envelope to the point where I canít tell if a couple is doing West Coast Swing or some kind of contemporary Ballroom-Latin dance.
This problem has been years in the making. Many of us, including myself, sold our souls to get on TV. I remember my partner (Bob Rogers) and I deliberately choose to have me spend 60 seconds of our 90 second "Dance Fever" routine in the air performing aerials, and ripping off our "swing clothes" (my poodle skirt and satin jackets) to reveal punk outfits so we could incorporate punk and new wave moves into our routine because we knew that would be appealing to the TV judges. The big difference was that we KNEW what we were doing was "Flash & Trash" and would never try to take that kind of garbage into a serious swing competition as at that time it would only be appropriate for exhibitions aimed at non swing dancing educated audiences. So what is the solution? The Lindy community had a similar dilemma several years ago when "Groove" style (basically freestyle) became a major part of their competitive and social scene. The Lindy community was able (with much internal conflict) to knit their community back together and incorporate the groove style without losing their traditional dance. I think it is a little too late for the West Coast Swing community to do the same. Instead of trying to merge the two vastly different styles, perhaps it is time for a new dance to be identified. After all, at one time the Lindy community felt that some dancers were dancing a style so far from Lindy that those dancers should have their own dance, and West Coast Swing was born.
I have heard a several names used to describe this new form, "Contemporary Club" dancing, and "Contemporary West Coast" to name two. Our Swing competitions can keep traditional Classic, Showcase, Strictly Swing, and Jack & Jill divisions and simultaneously offer this new division to people who want to dance to contemporary music using creative non-Swing choreography. Keep in mind that most of the people that would opt to dance in the new division are phenomenal Swing dancers as well, and would be enocouraged to compete in both the traditional as well as contemporary competitions. I think this type of division would best be offered at events where a precedent has already been set by offering Lindy, Salsa, and Hustle divisions along with the traditional West Coast Swing divisions. I would be happy to continue to judge the traditional West Coast Swing divisions and am more than willing to step aside so that others who are more educated in the newer form may set the standards for that particular division. My biggest fear is that this new form is pushing out the traditional dance so that I have nowhere, and no one to dance with. Already I find myself at a loss when a leader asks me to dance "West Coast Swing" and then proceeds to run back and forth around me, leads no six or eight count patterns, encourages 2-12 beat extensions, and leaves me unable to dance using my basic understanding of the principles of West Coast Swing. So, perhaps we should encourage traditional dancers to keep their dance alive and celebrate the roots of West Coast Swing all the while encouraging others to develop their "Contemporary Club" dance, and those who want to do both feel welcomed in either group. My hope is that way we will all feel free to express ourselves in a manner that is comfortable to each of us. I just think it is time to acknowledge the fact that the Swing community is now dealing with two very different dances.

[bethany]

That's a great read, Victor, thanks for posting it!

[westcoastjunkie]

Personally, I find good swing dancing extremely entertaining. I would much rather watch great swing dancers (Mario Robau, Jack Carey, Annie Hirsch, Sharlot Bott, Randy & Lisa Clements, etc.) dance six count pass patterns, pushes, and basic eight count whips all night long rather than much of the sexually explicit/suggestive, acrobatic, crawling on the floor antics that I see so much of lately.

Ditto.

I have to admit that I was pleasantly surprised (and reassured) when Michael and Kelease (sp?) won the U.S. Open Classic title. I'm a huge fan of Jordan & Tat but their latest routine just doesn't "swing" for me.