Blues vs Contemporary for Jack n Jill's

[swingdj]

So...I was curious...I want to know what type of music, you, the dancers want to hear in a Jack n Jill. Blues or Contemporary and why?

[notfromchicago]

well i want to hear both. i love blues, just the feel of it, i love it! but i also want contemporary, i like that little bit of edge that most blues dosen't bring to to the table, i like dancing to songs like secret-maroon 5 and low- flo rida. i just like a variety you give me that and NO TWEENERS(no WCS/ HUSTLES, Chicago Classic was horrible about that it seemed like every other song was a tweener). but ya variety and no tweeners and i'm happy! :)

[swingdj]

well i want to hear both. i love blues, just the feel of it, i love it! but i also want contemporary, i like that little bit of edge that most blues dosen't bring to to the table, i like dancing to songs like secret-maroon 5 and low- flo rida. i just like a variety you give me that and NO TWEENERS(no WCS/ HUSTLES, Chicago Classic was horrible about that it seemed like every other song was a tweener). but ya variety and no tweeners and i'm happy! :)

Interesting...which division in Chicago do you think had tweeners?

[StrictlySavoy]

Well I actually prefer R&B Soul. Everybody knows it and everybody loves it.

[swingdj]

Well I actually prefer R&B Soul. Everybody knows it and everybody loves it.

How do you know that everybody knows it and loves it????

[StrictlySavoy]

I guess I don't but I never here anybody complain about it. I here people complain about everything else. Its just my opinion. I would love to here that type of music more at events.

I never hear anyone go "I can't believe he just played Natural Man." Then again i have only been around for 1 year.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Are there any other choices? I don't think that all music can fit into one of those two buckets.

--Stan Graves

[swingdj]

Are there any other choices? I don't think that all music can fit into one of those two buckets.

--Stan Graves

Sure.....jazz, R&B, whatever else you want to call it other than blues :)

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Sure.....jazz, R&B, whatever else you want to call it other than blues :)

So the choices are "blues" and "not blues?"

That does make it easier - it is *very* hard to think of song that is almost 40 years old like Try Matty's as "contemporary."

In that case, I choose "not blues." There is simply more and better music in EVERY OTHER KIND OF MUSIC ON THE PLANET than there is in the bucket of "blues."

I like blues - but not to the point that I'm willing to exclude completely R&B, soul, motown, trash disco, pop, etc, etc, etc.

--Stan Graves

[Dima]

When I compete I like both, blues and non-blues. I also like to have songs that swing and straight count ones in the mix. Some greener DJs tend to just play straight count songs for all prelims. You can't dance with swing feel to a non-swinging song. Well, you can, it'd just look funny.
As Angel once said - the song you get is exactly the song you wanted. :)

If given a choice of one song only, it depends on the partner I have drawn, but I'd probably choose non-blues 70% of the time.

[WestieTash]

Can I choose "well known?" I'd much rather get a tweener that both my partner and I know than a great blues song that only one of us knows.

Having said that, I suppose the better odds would be with contemporary.

[Kelly]

In JnJ's I prefer a mix of both. I think that in a competition you should be able to display the fact that you can dance to "Blues" and "Non-Blues". As I got higher up in JnJ levels I had to "learn" how to dance to blues and I also learned to love it and appreciate it. However, thats beside the point, the point is that there is a clear distinction of a dancer who does NOT know how to dance to "Blues" and those who do. I think that having a variety in JnJ's in the best way to really test the ability of dancers, especially in the divisions like intermediate where they will soon be approaching advanced.

[Jeanette]

I love it when they have a choice for 70's music. It's awesome, brings the energy level up, and it looks like they have more flat-out fun. Shake Your Groove Thing! :-)

=Jeanette

[bethany]

well i want to hear both. i love blues, just the feel of it, i love it! but i also want contemporary, i like that little bit of edge that most blues dosen't bring to to the table, i like dancing to songs like secret-maroon 5 and low- flo rida. i just like a variety you give me that and NO TWEENERS(no WCS/ HUSTLES, Chicago Classic was horrible about that it seemed like every other song was a tweener). but ya variety and no tweeners and i'm happy! :)

Hmmm, this is in direct contrast to all the compliments I heard about the djing all weekend. I gotta disagree with you on this one.

[coastswing]

My favorite JnJ contests have one blues and one non-blues in finals. Like many of the Pro competitions I've seen, the 1st song is blues and they rip it up with some fantastic swing and the second usually shows the entertaining side of the dancers.

[bethany]

As much as I disliked NBB in novice (no-break blues), I also think it's critical in prelims at least. It forces the dancers to show their 3 T's and not focus on the musicality of breaks, which isn't supposed to be judged in novice anyway. I recall one j&j in novice where I got "Wade in the Water", and it drove me NUTS, because my lead wanted to hit EVERY break, and as you know, that song has breaks at the end of EVERY phrase. In talking with a pro during a novice j&j finals recently, he mentioned that any follow can hit breaks, stop her own movement, etc, but that doesn't make her proficient at the main components of novice wcs. It's been a great thought as I've watched j&j's since then.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

My favorite JnJ contests have one blues and one non-blues in finals.

I've gone back and forth on the question of "multi" or "single" song finals. At this point, I believe that I want a multi song pre-lim, and a single song final. Luck of the draw being what it is...

--Stan Graves

[SoundInMotionDJ]

I love it when they have a choice for 70's music. It's awesome, brings the energy level up, and it looks like they have more flat-out fun. Shake Your Groove Thing! :-)

Trash disco finals RULE!!!! Blame it on the boogie, oogie, oogie!

--Stan "A White Boy, Playing That Funky Music" Graves

[Jerry Wang]

For competition, if I have only the choice of the two, I'd like to have both. But can someone help me out though, what is defined as contemporary? I usually associate POP, and new release R&B/Soul as contemporary.

[vegas4x4]

When I compete I like both, blues and non-blues. I also like to have songs that swing and straight count ones in the mix. ...
If given a choice of one song only, it depends on the partner I have drawn, but I'd probably choose non-blues 70% of the time.

I'm with Dima here. If there is multiple songs (always has been for me so far) I like one blues, one contemporary, and one slow, and one jazz or another blues if they are doing four songs.

If I was in a spotlight with a music choice, it would depend on my partner as well, but honestly I'd try to get a song I knew which would lean me towards contemporary. That aside, I'd still probably choose non-blues 70% of the time too.

I still have a lot of work to do learning to dance well to blues though. Maybe my preferences will change as that gets better.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

But can someone help me out though, what is defined as contemporary? I usually associate POP, and new release R&B/Soul as contemporary.

Contemporary is typically taken to mean "not blues."

<rant>
As a label, "contemporary" is worse than meaningless. It's worse because most people think that "contemporary" means "of the day" or "modern" or "current." For the insight into the songs that "contemporary" provides, you might as well say "fuzzy."

BUT, in terms of the dance - Aretha Franklin's "Try Matty's" (from the 1970 album "Spirit In The Dark") falls into the "contemporary" bucket. A song that is older than most of the competitors is labeled "contemporary"...WTF is that???
</rant>

--Stan Graves

[Alina]

As someone who's experienced getting a completely unknown, to both my and partner and me, 70's song with no breaks whatsoever in a spotlight final in Phoenix, I have to say, given the blues/non-blues choice, I would choose blues for the final. This is because, even if I've never heard the blues song in my life, there is a much higher chance of a) there being breaks in it and b) me being able to predict those breaks with some modicum of accuracy because of the underlying musical structure of blues. I wanted to cry after finishing dancing to that song especially after I sat down and the next couple got up and danced to "Fire" as their song.

On the other hand, for prelims, where good strong, technical "teamwork" dancing is more important than hitting breaks, I say anything goes.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

As someone who's experienced getting a completely unknown, to both my and partner and me, 70's song with no breaks whatsoever in a spotlight final in Phoenix, I have to say, given the blues/non-blues choice, I would choose blues for the final. This is because, even if I've never heard the blues song in my life, there is a much higher chance of a) there being breaks in it and b) me being able to predict those breaks with some modicum of accuracy because of the underlying musical structure of blues.

There is nothing in the structure of music that makes any particular genre or easier or harder to read than any other (well...leaving aside certain "metal" and "classical" pieces that have *really* complex structures and changing meters). Your particular experience illustrates, as much as anything, the power of attitude when it comes to the song you got. If you think you don't like the song, then you're probably not going to pick up on the structure.

It could be the case that the 70's song you drew was better suited to hustle than to WCS. I agree that songs selected for competition should be strongly associated with the dance, and not a "crossover" or "tweener." I really dislike hearing songs that "swing" in competition....because the Vast Majority(tm) are better suited for foxtrot, than for WCS.

Breaks are not the universe when it comes to interpreting music, and your judges know that. It is possible that all the songs in the contest did not allow for a "similar" amount of musical interpretation. It is also possible that you were not "enthusiastic" about the song you drew, and missed the opportunities that were present.

Out of curiosity, what was the song?

--Stan Graves

[Dima]

Out of curiosity, what was the song?
Zhane - Shame

No breaks, but there are plenty of things you can accent.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Zhane - Shame

No breaks, but there are plenty of things you can accent.

OMG!! That's an awesome song! I prefer the version by Evelyn Champaign King...and I even did a routine to that song many years ago.

--Stan Graves

[swingdj]

For competition, if I have only the choice of the two, I'd like to have both. But can someone help me out though, what is defined as contemporary? I usually associate POP, and new release R&B/Soul as contemporary.


Jerry...Contemporary is usually defined as Top 40/Hip Hop type of music....if it's not contemporary then the other choices would be Old School or Soul...

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Jerry...Contemporary is usually defined as Top 40/Hip Hop type of music....if it's not contemporary then the other choices would be Old School or Soul...

So there are four choices now:

1. Blues
2. Top 40 & Hip-hop
3. Old School
4. Soul

What's 'old school'?

The first thing that comes to mind is the music from 15-20 years ago - the songs in the 130-150bpm range. Red Beans, Barefootin, Lipstick Powder & Paint, Whole Lotta Shakin, Farmer John, and so on.

--Stan Graves

[drousar]

To get back to the original question of the thread, I like anything!

There was a time early on that I was somewhat labled a contemporary dancer since my initial routines were contemporary and in the rare chance that I got a choice I chose comtemporary. Truth is, it was really because I was more familiar with the music, so there was a comfort there.

When I comfortable with the dance and really felt i could start to be expressive and musical I found myself getting comfortable dancing to anything and found a great appreiation and enjoyment from Blues.

I very well may chose blues over contemporary. ACC introduced me to slow blues and I LOVE dancing to slow blues, especially a partner I can really communicate with.

That said, my ideal preference would be not to be given a choice. Just play something for me and I'll dance to it. My success, my lack of success, my enjoyment that all rests on my shoulders. Not the music I got (well, as long as it swings) :)

Question - this very well is a different thread possibility and very well in line with where this thread has ended up......as a head judge/event director when providing a choice I very often get the questions, well what is fast? What is Slow? Define Blues? etc.. Is there any way comp DJs from around the country can get together and create a catalog or standard definition for these song choice types? It would be great to include that in something like the rules or provide at the meetings. To have a standard BPM or classification would be awesome. Maybe it already exists among DJs but it’s not common knowledge.

If it were up to me we wouldn't provide choices, but I know that would never fly. I am just tired of watching couples on the floor say, what do you want, no it's up to you, really, what do you want......Ridiculous IMO! :)

[WestieTash]

Question - this very well is a different thread possibility and very well in line with where this thread has ended up......as a head judge/event director when providing a choice I very often get the questions, well what is fast? What is Slow? Define Blues? etc.. Is there any way comp DJs from around the country can get together and create a catalog or standard definition for these song choice types? It would be great to include that in something like the rules or provide at the meetings. To have a standard BPM or classification would be awesome.

Oooooo. That would be awesome! I did a strictly last year and we were all given the choice of slow or fast. My partner and I picked slow (shocker, I know!). Imagine my surprise when the couple who picked slow before us got a song that was about 120 BMP (I was counting on my watch). I recognize we had an old school dj, so to him the song may have been slow. But compared to today's standards, there was absolutely nothing slow about the song. A standardized list would be absolutely wonderful!!!

[swingdj]

To get back to the original question of the thread, I like anything!

There was a time early on that I was somewhat labled a contemporary dancer since my initial routines were contemporary and in the rare chance that I got a choice I chose comtemporary. Truth is, it was really because I was more familiar with the music, so there was a comfort there.

When I comfortable with the dance and really felt i could start to be expressive and musical I found myself getting comfortable dancing to anything and found a great appreiation and enjoyment from Blues.

I very well may chose blues over contemporary. ACC introduced me to slow blues and I LOVE dancing to slow blues, especially a partner I can really communicate with.

That said, my ideal preference would be not to be given a choice. Just play something for me and I'll dance to it. My success, my lack of success, my enjoyment that all rests on my shoulders. Not the music I got (well, as long as it swings) :)

Question - this very well is a different thread possibility and very well in line with where this thread has ended up......as a head judge/event director when providing a choice I very often get the questions, well what is fast? What is Slow? Define Blues? etc.. Is there any way comp DJs from around the country can get together and create a catalog or standard definition for these song choice types? It would be great to include that in something like the rules or provide at the meetings. To have a standard BPM or classification would be awesome. Maybe it already exists among DJs but it’s not common knowledge.

If it were up to me we wouldn't provide choices, but I know that would never fly. I am just tired of watching couples on the floor say, what do you want, no it's up to you, really, what do you want......Ridiculous IMO! :)

Doug....I totally agree with you.

It's called a Jack n Jill and your partner is not known until the name is called out....the music should be the same.

A true Jack n Jill should be danced to any kind of music (blues, contemporary, jazz) and any speed (fast, slow).

The dancers SHOULD NOT get a choice....just dance....BUT....nowadays people are too busy complaining that so-so got a better song than I did.....has anyone ever stopped and noticed that a good dance is a good dance and the genre of music that's being palyed doesn't matter. Of course, that being said....I would never give one couple a song with breaks and high energy and flat songs to the rest of the dancers.

In my opinion, you hire a NATIONAL DJ for a NATIONAL event...let the DJ do there job in picking the music....I don't think that the head judge (sorry, Doug) or the event director should be dictating what songs get played in Jack n Jill's or Strictly Swings.

DISCUSS.....

[Dima]

I don't think that the head judge (sorry, Doug) or the event director should be dictating what songs get played in Jack n Jill's or Strictly Swings.
The event director is hiring you, so they should at least have a say in the theme, like bad 70's music, or cartoon themes, or pirate shanties, or forgotten Michael Jackson tunes, or Macarena remixes, or 60's R&B... Tongue Out

[SoundInMotionDJ]

In my opinion, you hire a NATIONAL DJ for a NATIONAL event...let the DJ do there job in picking the music....I don't think that the head judge (sorry, Doug) or the event director should be dictating what songs get played in Jack n Jill's or Strictly Swings.

DISCUSS.....

Dictate? No.

Advise and consent? Yes.

I much prefer to work for event directors who will hire me based on a respect for my judgment while I am in the booth. That said, there are always house rules and local customs or expectations that I may be unaware of.

I would much rather a head judge tell me that "...songs should be from this genre and in the tempo window and this long..." BEFORE the competition, than to need to give me that information after a couple must re-dance because I did not know those rules!

It would be nice (tho naive) to assume that the DJ has read all the rules for the event ahead of time. It is the job of the head judge to ensure that all the rules of the contest are met. I have no problem with a head judge, or event director making sure that I understand all the house rules, and double checking that my music selections meet those rules.

That said, I've been handed CDs that have the competition music on them many, many times. Since my fee is the same no matter who picks the songs, I don't really mind. Tongue Out

--Stan Graves

[drousar]

Yo Victor! Don't have to apologize to me :)

However, just so I am not misrepresented here. I have never, as an event director nor head judge, told a DJ what songs to play in any contest. Guidance of song styles and tempos and why were presented. I see no harm in that. The DJ then picked the quality songs to play, managed BPMs and overall fairness. That is absolutely their job! :)

I am pretty sure I knew what you meant, and I take no offense, but I didn't want others to think I was specifically giving you the music to play. I have heard of that in the past and I absolutely do not support that. The DJ in the booth gets the credit for the music played, they shouldn't be hitting play for someone else's CD.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

The event director is hiring you, so they should at least have a say in the theme, like bad 70's music, or cartoon themes, or pirate shanties, or forgotten Michael Jackson tunes, or Macarena remixes, or 60's R&B... Tongue Out

Don't tease me... :D

I have a "Mustang Sally" covers J&J final ready for the first person who asks... :p

--Stan Graves

[swingdj]

The event director is hiring you, so they should at least have a say in the theme, like bad 70's music, or cartoon themes, or pirate shanties, or forgotten Michael Jackson tunes, or Macarena remixes, or 60's R&B... Tongue Out

Just cause the ED (event director) has an event....doesn't mean that they are qualified to choose the music for comps....you hire staff that knows what they are doing so the ED can concentrate on other things, like the making sure the event is running smooth and his patrons are having a good time...

[Dima]

I wasn't implying they choose all music. I was implying they give the DJ a theme to run with, especially if their event is advertised with a certain theme or restriction, like Doug's family friendly songs.

[swingdj]

Yo Victor! Don't have to apologize to me :)

However, just so I am not misrepresented here. I have never, as an event director nor head judge, told a DJ what songs to play in any contest. Guidance of song styles and tempos and why were presented. I see no harm in that. The DJ then picked the quality songs to play, managed BPMs and overall fairness. That is absolutely their job! :)

I am pretty sure I knew what you meant, and I take no offense, but I didn't want others to think I was specifically giving you the music to play. I have heard of that in the past and I absolutely do not support that. The DJ in the booth gets the credit for the music played, they shouldn't be hitting play for someone else's CD.


Hey Doug....I was in NO WAY assuming that you as a head judge do that....I meant that since you head judge sometimes, I was saying sorry cause I don't agree with the head judge picking the music.....

Here is the deal...as a DJ...I have done a few Jack n Jills and Strictly Swings in my time....It's pretty safe to say that in pre-lims it is heated and you will need anywhere from 3 to 4 songs per heat and the should be anywhere from a 1:30 to a 1:45 in length. In Finals (if spotlight) it should be either one or two songs and it should be anywhere from 1:30 to 2:00 (depending on the division).

What is so hard about that.....so again....your hiring the DJ to do his/her job....let them do that...unless, it is a themed Jack n Jill like all-american like they do at John Wheaton's event where all the music is from the 1960's...I see no reason why the head judge or event director needs to dicatate what music to play....I say this because this has happened to me in the past.

Also, as far as getting CDs from the event director and saying please hit play for me...I WILL NOT DO THAT!!!!!

[Dima]

Also, as far as getting CDs from the event director and saying please hit play for me...I WILL NOT DO THAT!!!!!
Who picks the comp music for finals at Dallas Dance?

[swingdj]

Who picks the comp music for finals at Dallas Dance?

For the last 8 years, I have picked all the music for Dallas DANCE, both prelims, semis and finals for all JnJ's and Strictly...why...I feel a ***** session coming on!!!! Tongue Out

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Oooooo. That would be awesome! I did a strictly last year and we were all given the choice of slow or fast. My partner and I picked slow (shocker, I know!). Imagine my surprise when the couple who picked slow before us got a song that was about 120 BMP (I was counting on my watch). I recognize we had an old school dj, so to him the song may have been slow. But compared to today's standards, there was absolutely nothing slow about the song. A standardized list would be absolutely wonderful!!!

Look here:

http://www.westiewire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137 (http://www.westiewire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137)

--Stan Graves

[SoundInMotionDJ]

For the last 8 years, I have picked all the music for Dallas DANCE, both prelims, semis and finals for all JnJ's and Strictly...why...I feel a ***** session coming on!!!! Tongue Out

Wow! So, it's been at least 9 years since the "all remixes" Invitational at DD? Time flies... ;)

--Stan Graves

[swingdj]

Wow! So, it's been at least 9 years since the "all remixes" Invitational at DD? Time flies... ;)

--Stan Graves

YEAH....LOL....that was NOT ME...I do remember that and I remember being in Terry Rippa's suite when that DJ got fired and I got hired to start doing the comp music....yeah me.....:eek:

[Alina]

Out of curiosity, what was the song?

--Stan Graves

Well, the DJ was really clever...:rolleyes: The partner I drew was named Shane so I think the song was repeating "Shane" or something that sounded like "Shane" over and over. I have no clue who sings it, what it's called. The only reason I think it's 70s contemporary was because I think that was the theme for Novice J&J at 4th of July...

It's hard to be enthusiastic about a song neither of you had heard before in a spotlight final that you couldn't even hear the beat of during its intro. Noone has ever heard that song before that I spoke to afterwards. Believe me: we danced as well as we could to it (I thought we had a great dance actually; it would have been fantastic had we had any clue what we were dancing to, lol) and ultimately placed 6th, behind all the couples who got songs which we've all heard millions of times before...

I guess my biggest concern, especially for a spotlight final where you have to perform, not just dance, is that couples all get songs that are uniformly well-known (or uniformly unknown, as the case may be) because otherwise the DJ is handicapping certain couples and making it easier for others through their choice of music. I'm not going to complain that "their song was better than mine" or anything; just that it would be nice if the songs were more uniform than I've witnessed them to be before. I mean I've seen plenty of pro and invitational dances where the song was less than stellar and so was the dance; you just know they would have done soooo much more had the song been better.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

It's hard to be enthusiastic about a song neither of you had heard before in a spotlight final that you couldn't even hear the beat of during its intro. Noone has ever heard that song before that I spoke to afterwards.

It is hard to be enthusiastic about a song you have not heard before. And, in a field of very evenly matched competitors, that is a very good tool for the judges to help sort out the very best dancers from the best dancers.

There is no way to ensure that every competitor is equally familiar with every song. In any group of songs, there will be some that an individual is more familiar with than the others. One possible remedy is to listen to a broader range of music than you currently do.

Dima suggested that the song was by Zhane. That is a popular song, and I have played it many times before. Your individual lack of familiarity should not disqualify that song or any song from use in a competition.

I guess my biggest concern, especially for a spotlight final where you have to perform, not just dance, is that couples all get songs that are uniformly well-known (or uniformly unknown, as the case may be) because otherwise the DJ is handicapping certain couples and making it easier for others through their choice of music.

While I am unfamiliar with the event you are discussing, I do not know of ANY DJ who hand picks songs for couples as they walk on the floor. There is ALWAYS some random element in the music. In general, the songs are ordered BEFORE any of the competitors are known. It might be temping to take the coincidence of names being in the song, or someone getting their favorite song - sometimes random produces serendipity.

Let me say this: IF a DJ were to pick songs based on their knowledge of an individual competitors preferences, they should NEVER be allowed back into the booth during a competition.

--Stan Graves

[christina]

Defining in my own way...

One of the many reasons I decided to stop competing was music choice. After the umpteenth time of getting Mya's Sophisticated Lady I just couldn't take it anymore!

I define my music preference as this - not contemporary. And I mean that in the Victor sense stated a few pages ago. I don't want to swing dance to Top 40 pop/alternative and hip hop.

If the DJ plays: Rhythm & Blues (which I type out to differentiate from modern Urban R&B.), soul, gospel, Mowtown/STAX recordings, Modern music that swings, appropriate blues & jazz (not all blues or jazz swings) - then I'd have more of an inclination to get out there and compete again.

That said, as I mentioned in the comments about what makes for good swing music, most WCS dancers seem to not now how to dance to swing music these days. So often a when a swingin' Rhythm & Blues is played (socially or competitively) I find my partner unable to dance to the music. I blame it on hearing but not listening to the music. You can hear a break or an accent in the music without really listening. Same difference as dancing to the music vs. with the music.

My best placement came from a competition where I was partnered with a former lindy hopper for finals. The first three songs could be classified as contemporary - some swinging' some straight count, slow and fast. As a "final look" the judges asked for a fourth song which turned out to be blues.

I learned later on from the judges that our partnership was placed fairly middle of the pack until that song - we were the only couple (so I was told) that were able with the blues that a few changed our placement and we ended up taking home Second. And I admit, on the other end of that spectrum, we were probably middle of the pack as dancing with the contemporary was not our strong suit - made more obvious by it being a weakness for us both rather than one partner.

[Dima]

For the last 8 years, I have picked all the music for Dallas DANCE, both prelims, semis and finals for all JnJ's and Strictly...why...I feel a ***** session coming on!!!! Tongue Out
Not from me. I was just curious, because it is a CD with a bunch of tracks that are picked at random by competitors. Someone had to make that CD.

D

[Alina]

One possible remedy is to listen to a broader range of music than you currently do.

Dima suggested that the song was by Zhane. That is a popular song, and I have played it many times before. Your individual lack of familiarity should not disqualify that song or any song from use in a competition.

--Stan Graves

Yes, you're right - I should listen to more music and try to.

As for the song, that was the one and only time I ever heard anyone play it. And I did my best with the song; I had to. One judge placed us first with it and told me we had a very good dance (surprised the heck out of me that a judge would volunteer that sort of thing after what I thought was a not-so-exciting dance). It's just that the other 11 songs played for the other couples, I'd at least heard once before which is why I thought they were more familiar than the one chosen for us. Especially after several more seasoned competitors told me they'd never heard our song before either...

[swingdj]

Not from me. I was just curious, because it is a CD with a bunch of tracks that are picked at random by competitors. Someone had to make that CD.

D

What CD??? I made all the CDs for Dallas DANCE comps....which one are you refering too?

[Dima]

Not any one cd in particular. I was just curious who makes them, because you mentioned that you'd refuse a CD handed to you by an ED, so someone other than the ED must have made that CD for you to play it.

I think we're going in circles.

[deereyn]

My votes definitely for variety - a good mix of both and other genres too; rnb, jazz, etc. The worst is to participate in a jack n jill and dance to the same kinds of music. Also, for me, personally sometimes I use the change in music to showcase different aspects of my technique and personality.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

Not any one cd in particular. I was just curious who makes them, because you mentioned that you'd refuse a CD handed to you by an ED, so someone other than the ED must have made that CD for you to play it.

I think we're going in circles.

Dima, I don't think the issue that Victor has is who produces the physical CD. The issue is who picks the songs that will be used. In the case of DD, Victor did both - he picked the songs, and he made the CD.

--Stan Graves

[swingdj]

Not any one cd in particular. I was just curious who makes them, because you mentioned that you'd refuse a CD handed to you by an ED, so someone other than the ED must have made that CD for you to play it.

I think we're going in circles.

I made the CDs and I hit play.

[lrsd]

Amazing thread.....maybe this is why I dont compete and rather social dance. Some of the best social dances I have had are to songs that I never heard before....ones with great beats and ones that surprise you. Is it really that much fun to dance with a great partner and you know ever beat of the song? The real fun IMO is to have a partner that you can communicate with and have a great song that you never heard before that has a great beat.

One of my better dances was with a lindy dancers I had never danced with before and just met her when I asked her to dance....a song came on neither of us had heard before and we looked at each other, smiled, said never heard this one before and started laughing. The dance was great as we had to communicate with each other as well as the music and in my opinion that is what swing is about...its about communicating with your partner and the music, expression. This dance is based on self expression....it takes communication, passion an love.

The story in this thread is one that has been around for years...where dancers complain about songs and song choice. It gets really old in the end....same thread 4 years ago, same thread 7 years ago on R.A.D. Just dance and let the sometimes wonderful DJ's like victor pick the songs.

Sometimes wonderful is when he is in the ballroom and not running around hotel rooms drinking all my crown...ok it was his crown but it was in my room at Madjam! LOL ...kidding vic

[Kelly]

Sometimes wonderful is when he is in the ballroom and not running around hotel rooms drinking all my crown...ok it was his crown but it was in my room at Madjam! LOL ...kidding vic

Haha!! Wait.....Victor is a DJ???? Lol:eek:

[Alina]

Amazing thread.....maybe this is why I dont compete and rather social dance. Some of the best social dances I have had are to songs that I never heard before....ones with great beats and ones that surprise you. Is it really that much fun to dance with a great partner and you know ever beat of the song? The real fun IMO is to have a partner that you can communicate with and have a great song that you never heard before that has a great beat.



I'm not sure if you're speaking about my "complaints" or not but I'll respond nonetheless;)... I agree with you with regard to social dancing. However, competition dancing, especially dancing spotlight in novice, is a different animal. If it wasn't then you wouldn't have made your statement about choosing not to compete... I love getting a song I don't know while social dancing, it's pretty cool. But in competition, when your lead is a nervous wreck because it's his first time dancing spotlight in front of a huge crowd, it really is helpful to know the song at least a little bit so you can help your leader (this is from a follower perspective). That's all I was saying. It also makes a competition that's largely based on luck just a little more fair when all the competitors get an equally familiar or unfamiliar song. I mean I've seen competitions standardize songs based on speed, general style (blues, pop, 70s funk/disco) etc. for each category - why not general familiarity of the song? After all, DJs should know what the well-known and not-so-well-known songs are...

[swingdj]

Haha!! Wait.....Victor is a DJ???? Lol:eek:

Well...I'm really just a DJit (DJ In Training) but I'm hoping that I can do my very own event on of these days...I have been learning a lot form Kelly "Grab Your Lighter" Faust!!!! Tongue Out

[swingdj]

After all, DJs should know what the well-known and not-so-well-known songs are...

One would hope....BUT...nowadays....EVERYONE is a DJ!!!!!!

[WestieTash]

I'm not sure if you're speaking about my "complaints" or not but I'll respond nonetheless;)... I agree with you with regard to social dancing. However, competition dancing, especially dancing spotlight in novice, is a different animal. If it wasn't then you wouldn't have made your statement about choosing not to compete... I love getting a song I don't know while social dancing, it's pretty cool. But in competition, when your lead is a nervous wreck because it's his first time dancing spotlight in front of a huge crowd, it really is helpful to know the song at least a little bit so you can help your leader (this is from a follower perspective). That's all I was saying. It also makes a competition that's largely based on luck just a little more fair when all the competitors get an equally familiar or unfamiliar song. I mean I've seen competitions standardize songs based on speed, general style (blues, pop, 70s funk/disco) etc. for each category - why not general familiarity of the song? After all, DJs should know what the well-known and not-so-well-known songs are...


Alina, it's always been explained to me that Novice gets the easy songs. So, while you may not know every lyric to the songs you get, you should at least be able to figure them out within a phrase or so.

Victor, am I wrong?

[swingdj]

Alina, it's always been explained to me that Novice gets the easy songs. So, while you may not know every lyric to the songs you get, you should at least be able to figure them out within a phrase or so.

Victor, am I wrong?

Usually, Novice gets songs that don't have breaks...so they will get songs that have been played for quite some time...songs that everyone should (key word...here) know.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

There was a time when the Vast Majority(tm) of Novice competitors did not travel. So, the music for that competition tended to be what was played by local instructors and common social dancing songs.

No so in today's world.

I agree with Victor - I tend to pick songs for novice that have no/few breaks. If the song has breaks, I make sure that the beat continues so the break can be "danced through." I pick songs that are "middle tempo" (maybe 104 to 116?). I pick songs that I know have been around for a while - to increase the odds that the couples have heard the music before.

--Stan Graves

[lrsd]

If it wasn't then you wouldn't have made your statement about choosing not to compete... I love getting a song I don't know while social dancing, it's pretty cool. But in competition, when your lead is a nervous wreck because it's his first time dancing spotlight in front of a huge crowd, it really is helpful to know the song at least a little bit so you can help your leader (this is from a follower perspective).

My response was not directed to any one person...just a general note. But interesting response. But lets think a little....what is swing? Is it not a street dance born in the clubs and danced by people who wanted to express themselves? knowing a song can hurt a novice dancer in some ways worse then not knowing the song. Let me explain...you both know the song yet you know a break or accent is coming up...you go to hit it anticipating your partner will and they dont. A judge can see that....now take a song that neither of you know, how do you dance to it? You dance based on the song, what its telling you to do...you can still help your partnet but you may not throw each other off and may not anticipate something that the judge may notice. In a number of cases the biggest mistake that novice dancers make is trying to dance above their level.

In a novice division the judges are looking for 3 things, they have 10 sec to determine this depending on how large the division is. They are looking for the 3 t's. When a judge is looking for the 3 t's it does not matter if you know the song or not...what you want is something that helps you concentrate on those 3 little things. What is the other trick of the trade? Dance in the middle of the room. Does anyone know why?

[vegas4x4]

However, competition dancing, especially dancing spotlight in novice, is a different animal.

What event is dancing spotlight in novice? That sounds like a not so great idea to me!

Only one event I've been to did spotlight in novice and that was Halloween Swingthing two years ago. I noticed they didn't dance novice spotlight this last year though.

[swingdj]

What event is dancing spotlight in novice? That sounds like a not so great idea to me!

Only one event I've been to did spotlight in novice and that was Halloween Swingthing two years ago. I noticed they didn't dance novice spotlight this last year though.

Dallas DANCE and Swing Diego spotlights every division...

[Dima]

What event is dancing spotlight in novice? That sounds like a not so great idea to me!
In addition to what Victor said - Phoenix spotlights every division.

[Burger]

What is the other trick of the trade? Dance in the middle of the room. Does anyone know why?

I actually prefer to dance in the back of the room for various reasons. Please tell...

[Alina]

While I was competing novice, I did two events where I had to dance spotlight, Swing Diego and Phoenix, both last year. While dancing spotlight does not bother me, it certainly bothered both of my leads;)

[bethany]

Doug's "Spotlight NYE" event in Milwaukee has spotlight in every division as well. Not sure if his event in July will follow the same format.

[Kenobi]

Getting back to the original questions of blues vs. non-blues: It's my humble opinion that we're fortunate to have a dance that, while originally intended as a "swing" dance, is adaptable enough to accommodate multiple genres. Let's face it, in the country world (which I DJ some), you rarely expand beyond country to do a two-step, or cha. but with wcs it's everything from "Kansas City," to "Sensual Seduction." And while some people may not like the potpourri, I think it's been at least somewhat of a reason that wcs has been able to grow its popularity in recent years.

Just my three cents worth. :)

[lrsd]

I actually prefer to dance in the back of the room for various reasons. Please tell...

- Cant really tell why, but lets just say that none of us would be doing JNJ if it was not for the person who gave me this information. But the explanation provided was right when you sit and think about it.

[Purkey]

...so Burger...why do you prefer:shades: to dance in the back of the room...???

[Burger]

- Cant really tell why, but lets just say that none of us would be doing JNJ if it was not for the person who gave me this information. But the explanation provided was right when you sit and think about it.

Why ask the question if you can't tell the answer? I think someone should start a "Competition Tips" thread in Competition Corner for this topic.

Purkey, I like to dance in the back because many time the judges are in the back. So many go to the front to get in front of the audience. I prefer for the judges to see me, not the audience...especially in a prelim.

[Burger]

I don't have a preference. When I compete in a Jack & Jill I want a good song. Yes, I know, what defines a good song? Not going to get into that but I want a song that motivates me to dance and has creative opportunities in it. I don't think that has anything to do with the genre of the song.

If I had a choice it would depend on my partner and her preference. If she didn't have a preference it would depend on the DJ and if I'd already had a chance to hear what the DJ is playing for previous competitors.

I prefer to be surprised. I don't want to know. Just play a song and I'll to the best I can with the partner and song I am given. ;)

[Eric]

I don't have a preference. When I compete in a Jack & Jill I want a good song. Yes, I know, what defines a good song? Not going to get into that but I want a song that motivates me to dance and has creative opportunities in it. I don't think that has anything to do with the genre of the song.

If I had a choice it would depend on my partner and her preference. If she didn't have a preference it would depend on the DJ and if I'd already had a chance to hear what the DJ is playing for previous competitors.

I prefer to be surprised. I don't want to know. Just play a song and I'll to the best I can with the partner and song I am given. ;)

What he said ;)

I don't want anything too repetitive (just the same rhythm the whole time) and I don't want anything too outside-the-box (no consistent rhythm pattern). Give me some variation, some texture, some feeling - and I'll give you the best dance I can - under the circumstances :)

[Eric]

Purkey, I like to dance in the back because many time the judges are in the back. So many go to the front to get in front of the audience. I prefer for the judges to see me, not the audience...especially in a prelim.

I agree, and something I learned from my days in ballroom - if they can't see you, they can't write your number down.

At the same time, you may get overlooked if you're dead smack in front of them, and ultimately, the way comps are going these days, people watch the couple who gets the most cheers - and oftentimes that includes the judges...

[dancin_weezie]

I want both types of music - ESPECIALLY in a prelim. Now ask any all-star dancer what I will pick for Spotlight - Slow Blues :tonguesmilie:

That's just me - but in a prelim I like a variety - something slow, something mid tempo blues, something upbeat and comtemporary. That makes me happy.

[swinginstyle]

My personal preference is blues or perhaps I should say... not contemporary. The blues structure works much better in my mind. Contemporary creates havoc.

[chandra]

Me personally? Always Always slow, any genre. Im just a wh** for slow groovy music, ALWAYS! Id love to have atleast one slow song in a prelim, cause thats what I seek out to dance to socially, therefor where I am comfortable.
However, I totally appreciate the value of having more uptempo music of all genres in a competition as well. So Im gonna go ahead and agree with pretty much everyone, and say "BOTH, as long as its good!"*

*Dont ask me to define good! I dont know! However, my deffinition of good deffinitly DOESNT include over played 90's pop. :D thats just me tho... ooh, most swustle and hustle also doesnt fit in my deffinition of good...