What Makes Good Swing Music, Good Swing Dancing - by Victor Loveira

[wwadmin]

For the last few years, the general debate at swing events has been the music. What kind of music makes for good swing dancing? Many of the "old school" pro's feel that the music has deviated from it's original form, in other words the music being played today DOES NOT SWING! Regardless of what kind of music you like, the bottom line is that the music over the last eight + years has drastically changed. Whether you like blues, top 40, hip-hop or jazz is not the point but is the music making you swing in your dance? That's the real question. Let's look at this, as we all know West Coast Swing can be danced to anything that is 4/4 time. So all generes fall into that department, so I ask you this does Timbaland's "The Way I Are" make your dance swing as much as Aretha Franklin's "Muddy Water"? Well, the true answer is no but the majority of music being played are songs like "The Way I Are", why is that? In my opinion, the new dancers coming into the community are younger and would rather dance to contemporary music (as it's called) rather than the standard songs that were played when I came into the WCS scence back in 1995. The other reason is there a lot more events these days then there were 10 years ago and as a result there a lot more DJs as well.

Like everything in life, change is inevitable, and change is good as long as we don't forget were we came from. You look at any old DVD from events 10 to 15 years ago and the dance is totally different from what is being done today and because of that more people have found WCS and decided to add a new hobby to there lives. For that I am happy but I fear that the true orginality of the dance may be lost as well because the music is not allowing the dancers to actually swing. Sadly, many of todays songs just don't swing because there are no rolling counts in the music. So how do we find a happy medium, for me, it's variety. This means that we should dance to blues, top 40, hip-hop and jazz and too much of one thing is just that....too much. In my opinion, we need to educate the new dancers and let them know where this dance originated from.

So what makes good swing music, good swing dancing? For me it's songs that have rolling counts in them to allow you to feel the swing in the dance but I also like to dance to smooth songs that allow me to just groove with my partner. Also, songs that have either stucato or a ligato feel are fun as well. I want to open this essay up to discussion, comments and questions. I want to know what you think makes good swing music, good swing dancing?

[dncndjrob]

"Gimme that Funk, with a Side of Blues", by Rob Baen

... or maybe it's the other way around ... Blues with a side of funk sounds pretty good too. On the other hand, what kind of blues are we talking about here? Chicago blues, heavy on the horn section ? ... Yeah, that's right, I'm "Crazy 'Bout a Saxophone"... or maybe Mississippi Delta Blues, with some raw, gut twisting slide guitar work guaranteed to make your toes worm their way onto the hardwood. Then there's Texas Roadhouse Blues, high energy, make 'em thirsty for another beer kind of stuff. ... you got your LA style, your Memphis,Tennessee brand, and let's not forget about the shades of gray in-between like Southern Rock, and that whole other bit of confusion we generate when we add the word Rhythm to Blues.

Rhythm and Blues together, ... now there's a concept ... not to mention a whole other genre, certainly worth discussing while simultaneously sipping on one's choice of adult beverage. Hmmmmm .... can you say Carolina Shag ??? Oh yeah, and we really oughta make some room on the playlist for Soul, Jazz, a bit of Latin, electronica, Urban Rhythm & Blues (gasp, cough, wheeze ... ), Gospel, Top 40, Top 100, hip-hop,rap, and whatever else can squeeze into 4/4 time. What's a poor DJ to do ??? No wonder we're playing our gigs off of laptops with hard drives big enough to supply the Smithsonian Institute with enough files for a music wing.

The bottom line is that we're talking about West Coast Swing here, and we're talking about the music that makes us want to dance that dance, and to keep dancing that dance for hours, days, weekends, and years to come. Yes, change is inevitable; especially where it concerns art forms like dance and music. The good news is that for dancers, change brings choice, and choice can be a beautiful thing if you let it. I totally agree with Victor on his point about variety and finding a happy meduim with the music. We can not help what we personally like (musically I mean), but we can certainly educate ourselves to a level where we can happily dance our dance to a variety of music styles.

For me, good swing music is anything that makes me wanna dance swing, and plenty of good dance music abounds in all of the varieties I've mentioned in this post. As a DJ, I'm looking to keep my dancers on the floor, and send 'em home (as late as possible) with tired feet, talking about how awesome a time they just had. A good West Coast Swing music mix does exactly that. It gives all tastes and preferences enough floortime, that our dance lust has been sated ... at least until the next time ...

[Burger]

I agree with both of you. I personally like all kinds of music to west coast to. Any type of song that spurs my interest at the moment could make me want to west coast swing to it. That defines a "West Coast Swing" song to me.

That being said, I feel very strongly that we have to remember the roots of the dance and instill that in new additions and existing community members. The dance will change, no doubt, but let's not forget where it came from, for this is the reason we all get to enjoy it today.

A solid mix is the answer in my opinion. To be honest, I don't think anyone wants to hear the same style music for 4 hours...even if it is their favorite. it's redundant and boring. A mix allows everyone to enjoy their favorite style music and experience their "not so favorite." ;)

[swingdj]

There hasn't been much feedback on this...I really want to hear what you guys think....let's open this up to discussion...;)

[coastswing]

I'm going to cop the "I agree" plea. I like a pretty wide variety of music. But all of the songs I like have one thing in common. I can only describe it as a constant/steady sound that takes you through the whole song.

There's the driving beat of the great blues we hear at dances ("Girl They Won't Believe It" or "Home USA"), or a lingering sound that carries you through the whole song (sorry, not that musical here, so the best I can do is offer Ode To Billie Joe as my example...it has that bass that resonates throughout the whole song and carries you through to the end, almost like you are riding a smooth wave to shore).

As for Good Swing Dancing, be the rubber band and give me elasticity baby!

[Dima]

"Gimme that Funk, with a Side of Blues", by Rob Baen
Ha! I actually have that song.


I have a more eclectic taste and an open mind as far as dancing WCS goes. I like to dance to more experimental stuff once in a while, like "Apologize" or "My Immortal" or "Back at your Door" or "Shadowboxer" they're totally a non-WCS songs. I probably represent about 0.5% of the WCS population that holds that opinion. Someone recently posted Lenny Cravitz - Dancin' 'Till Dawn in their top 10. I listened to it and found it boring. It's got a sold beat that's great for beginners, but there isn't anything in that song that I would grab onto. It'd probably put me on autopilot. There are quite a few DJs out there that'd put me on autopilot because they either play boring music or they play the same soundtrack every f***ing time (I wonder if there's a bad word filter), to the point where I can actually tell what the next song will be, but back to the discussion at hand.

Don't get me wrong, I love the older stuff and I like the songs that have something to take you through it, like "Home USA" has a bunch of little accents throughout the song, that make it musically interesting and engaging for the brain. There are groove songs that have a sold base line, like "Staten Island Groove" and if Eric would help me - he played this one as the last song at the Gotham party on Saturday. I also like the variety and creativity - that's what originally attracted me to the dance. When I first saw WCS danced to blues music, I thought it was just boring. I couldn't handle more than a few songs in a row. That was 1997. In 2001 a friend of mine dragged me out to Two Left Feet, and I fell in love with the dance, because it changed to include the hip hop and other genres. I couldn't handle a dance with just 50's and 60's r&b music or just pop - makes no difference if it swings or if it's straight count. I'd slash my wrists before the night is over. I like variety, not only in tempo and style, but also in the count - straight vs. swing. I like the fact that I can listen to a song on the radio (and I'm not talking about only pop) and then dance to it at a dance or in the aisles of a supermarket.

The theoretical answer to your question is that music with a swing count makes good music for swing dancing, but that's just that. You can get creative all you want within a 6 or an 8 count pattern, however it's not as exciting to some people as say, doing a somersault in the middle of a dance. The dance has evolved to be a fusion of many other forms, because it has so much freedom to do things. The music had to keep up and evolve with the dance, so whether it swings or not make no difference to me as a dancer, as long as you have both. I like my somersaults, even though I can't do one to save my life, and I want to keep it that way.

[Cooley]

SO, here's my 2 cents!

I got into WCS based on the music. As a former handdancer, I had been 'oldied' out, so when I saw smooth, fun, and funky dancing being done to current music-stuff I actually listen to-I was hooked. I know I'm not the majority, but I LOVE dancing to hip hop, because it's what I grew up listening to and still do listen to. I love the 'funk' in it, and the beats, but I also love r&b, pop, and the slow stuff. Nothing better, to me, than groovin to a slow, sexy song. Are these considered 'swing' things? Prob. not for the history buffs of wcs origins, but that's not where I come from or where I entered the scene. In fact, if I had seen what I've seen on old videos of WCS, I wouldn't be doing it. The bounciness of it, well...no comment! lol Bottom line, for me, is I love to dance to music I can play with, that has the accents, that isn't all bounce and no play. WCS may not have started that way, but I'm glad it's evolved to it.

[CrazyKate]

I'm up for dancing to pretty much anything - but I've also been dancing some form of dance to pretty much anything my whole life.

Blues makes me work harder to dance, and I've found that unless someone else is really into the particular blues song, I have trouble enjoying myself. It's almost like trying to force the fun. The only reliable exceptions to that is Brother Yusef; there's something about that music that just grabs me deep inside.

If I'm having an off night, I prefer my junk food thumpa-thumpa music all around.

In general, I like a good mix - both in genre & tempos.

[MikeRosa]

While am very new to WCS (6 months), I have been dancing other dances for a number of years and each dance has a particular music type associated with it thats where it starts to get boring for me.

One of the key things that made me want to learn WCS was the variety of music that it can be danced to! However closely aligned to that was that the dance its self it has for me a definate look and feel (step, step, triple, anchor step).

For me a particular genre of music is not the problem, its whether the individual song fits the dance, I ask myself "do I want to West Coast Swing to this"

Iam quite partial to a nice bit of 60's/70's soul it always makes me wanna dance:D:cool:

[Jeanette]

It's almost universal that someone will answer they want "a solid mix" or "a good mix." But that means very different things to different people.

One person wants their mix to be 70 percent familiar blues, 30 percent contemporary or newer blues-y stuff (like Joss Stone) and certainly no hip-hop.

Another person wants their mix to be 70 percent pop and hip hop, and 30 percent blues. And that 30 percent includes Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, etc.

Almost everyone says they want variety of tempo, and wonders why the DJ doesn't play more music as fast as it used to be played for WCS. Then the entire room sits down for a song that's over 120 beats per minute. Except the one couple who got out there before hearing what the song would be. :-)

For me personally, I like songs that either:
1) Make me pulse in my seat - funk
2) Make me laugh - I am a sucker for funny lyrics, and will fall in love with a funny song even if it otherwise sucks to dance to
3) Make me ooze - like Michael's Ode To Billy Joe example.
4) There is a certain sound - like Change The World, and many Al Green songs, that feel like coming home to me. Yep, it's not a helpful description, but I know it when I hear it! And songs with that sound always make me happy, and want to dance.

I'm sure there are more sounds I like, but that's all the typing my current coffee level will support. :-)

=Jeanette

[WestieTash]

Like Mike, I'm someone who has learned several styles of dance. So for me, a good WCS song has to be more than a song in 4/4 time. It has to FEEL like WCS. I get soooooo annoyed when DJs play a Cha-Cha or Hustle during a WCS dance/party. It's too difficult to retain the character of WCS during a song that's screaming "2-3-cha-cha-cha."

On any given night, I want to hear GOOD songs. I want some blues. I want some old school R&B. I also need a healthy splash of contemporary as well. And I must have lots of slow mixed in as well. As I work on becoming a more well rounded dancer, I have to dance to all types of music.

I think this thread is a great companion to the "Anchor" thread. When we dance to music that doesn't swing, it becomes too easy to forget the triple step at the end of the pattern.

[coastswing]

Like Mike, I'm someone who has learned several styles of dance. So for me, a good WCS song has to be more than a song in 4/4 time. It has to FEEL like WCS. I get soooooo annoyed when DJs play a Cha-Cha or Hustle during a WCS dance/party. It's too difficult to retain the character of WCS during a song that's screaming "2-3-cha-cha-cha."


How true. I know when I first started West Coast Swing, my dance background was pretty non-existent. So I would West Coast to water dripping out of the faucet. In my recent years I've started doing a variety of others and it's just not the same for me, especially if it's clearly a song that is hustle, cha-cha or Night Club 2 Step.

It was like the days when I first started line dancing....only knew a few, so when I didn't know what dance went with a song, I simply used the old reliable Tush Push.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

I get soooooo annoyed when DJs play a Cha-Cha or Hustle during a WCS dance/party.

I get annoyed when the music played is suppose to "swing" and the only thing I am inspired to do is a slow foxtrot! The Vast Majority(tm) of music that "swings" is only good for leg or body swing...not for swing dancing.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

It's almost universal that someone will answer they want "a solid mix" or "a good mix." But that means very different things to different people.

When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.

So...if God is a DJ, and life is a dance floor...



Almost everyone says they want variety of tempo, and wonders why the DJ doesn't play more music as fast as it used to be played for WCS. Then the entire room sits down for a song that's over 120 beats per minute. Except the one couple who got out there before hearing what the song would be.

+1

The current trend in my region is to describe music as either "blues" or "contemporary." I have absolutely no idea how I am suppose to map my collection into those two buckets. None. It is as meaningless as describing music as "fuzzy" and "sticky." :confused:

I DO NOT WANT TO THINK on every song. I want/need some songs to be "simpler" so that I can just relax and dance. What are the newcomers to think when every song in a set is intricate and full of breaks or accents?

I like songs where the vocals can just be another instrument to hit - not the words, but the sound of the singers voice.

--Stan

[jimrkelly]

Historically as "Swing" dancing has evolved it has been called many different names reflecting the tempo and/or style of the music being played and interpreted. Lindy, East Coast Swing, West Coast Swing, Shag, Balboa, etc. Currently Swing dancers dance to many different genres of music so to cover all lets just say we are "West Coast Dancing". This would allow us to leave out the "Swing" if the song doesn't. In competitions the judges wouldn't be able to mark you down for not doing your "triples" if the song doesn't "Swing". They also couldn't judge on 90% Swing content if the song doesn't "Swing" either. Remember, reality exists in language so go out an create your world.

[dancin_weezie]

I like songs where the vocals can just be another instrument to hit - not the words, but the sound of the singers voice.

--Stan

Thank you!! I love a song with great vocals - it's a totally different challenge than hitting the one ginormas break.... So much more fun sometimes....Tongue Out

[Scott S.]

The bottom line is that we're talking about West Coast Swing here, and we're talking about the music that makes us want to dance that dance, and to keep dancing that dance for hours, days, weekends, and years to come.

Bingo. But how do we do that without burning out?

IMHO, the key is not simply the variety of music but the variety of WCS styles that fit each genre.

This topic has been an ongoing face to face discussion among some of the DC locals. I asked one lady the question: "What happened to the *swing* in West Coast Swing?"

Her answer: "It went away, unfortunately."

Don't misunderstand, I love the newer, smoother style... but that doesn't mean that I disliked the older style!

I see four main styles of WCS and to keep things interesting, so that we keep dancing for those months and years to come, we need to keep mixing them up.

1 - Current contemporary style. This works for most of the music currently played and you see it everywhere.

2 - Hip-Hop. This is body rolls, gliding, popping, ticking, etc.. Think Greg and Hanna goofing off and having fun at midnight or Guyton Mundy.

3 - Sexy Silky Smooth... This is jaw dropping grace and beauty. Slow R&B or Smooth Jazz is best and the style has been personified by T-Rose for years.

4 - Old School. Butt bumpin', heart poundin', swingin' from the rafters Rhythm & Blues. In the 90's we used to dance WCS at live Blues clubs and the energy shook the walls every night. For those new to the dance, check out videos of Mario from back in the day to see what we're all fussing about.

Personally, I think that if the music mix was set up for 40% Contemporary and then 20% of each of the other styles then the people dancing would use each style when it's music was played. This keeps the variety going, keeps people interested and keeps us dancing, as dncndjrob said: "for hours, days, weekends, and years to come".

[WestieTash]

Personally, I think that if the music mix was set up for 40% Contemporary and then 20% of each of the other styles then the people dancing would use each style when it's music was played. This keeps the variety going, keeps people interested and keeps us dancing, as dncndjrob said: "for hours, days, weekends, and years to come".

That would be a perfect mix!

[jssrabbit]

I have to weigh in somewhere in the middle with: I love the variety. I'm attracted to the dance for its adaption to nearly any music. I love the funk and the blues. The only time I squawk about the music is when its too much of something: too much instrumental, too much slow, too much hustle-ish-ness. Music is so key to the dance that it can literally turn me off to it. A perfect example to this is Lindy: I do not like the music so I'll never do the dance.

I danced ballroom before wcs a couple years ago and, although I was once happy with the diversity of 10+ dances, wcs greatly diminished my interest. The ballroom culture is similarly competitive (if not more so) and engaging but after the freedom of wcs, I found myself bored with the moves of the dances.

I can understand those who want to keep the dance real to its roots. However, provided the blues and smooth and "swing" music and movement is not lost, I see improvement in what the dance has become. I was talking to someone about this on the way home from Mad Jam. The integration of hip hop music has added body isolations, pops and other controlled movements to wcs dancing. This is an ELECTIVE degree of difficulty! As far as I know you're not judged on your ability to do body rolls...but I find them entertaining to watch! I think the "nature of the beast" in any competitive sport is that the bar is and will be continually raised. It is true in technology, in medicine, in history. We continually play with it to make it better...and it evolves.

I think the best samples of wcs music can be seen during the Invitational J&J when they play classic "slow" (generally blues) and a fast (generally top 40's/hip hop) songs for each couple. Sitting in the audience as the music came on and the dancers were standing in closed position, it felt as if the whole room collectively approved the song when it was one we've all heard and love (in the first)...and one we knew was fun and funky (in the second).
All I can say after witnessing the invitational is....

...can you do THAT to Fox Trot!!?!!!

[Zak]

I'm going to ramble/rant a little. Bear with me, I might make an interesting point. :)

A quick aside about myself: I've been a jazz & blues fan since my early teens. In college I took jazz history classes and for 4 years I Dj'ed a jazz & blues show on the school's radio station. I've read many biographies of jazz & blues musicians. I've listened to A LOT of jazz & blues music. My love of the music and the swing dance revival of the late 90s got me started in swing dancing. I started WCS in 2001. I've been DJing WCS, Lindy/ECS, hustle, ballroom, and salsa dances for 6 years. I know when something swings!! :)

At some point in my WCS DJ life I might have played a music mix like the following:

(1940s) Louis Jordan - Knock Me A Kiss
(1950s) Jimmy Witherspoon - When The Lights Go Out
(1960s) Sam Cooke - I'll Coming Running Back To You, Aretha Franklin - Try Matty's
(1970s) Al Green - Tired Of Being Alone, Lou Rawls - Natural Man
(1980s) Kool & The Gang - Get Down On It, Prince - Kiss, Tom Wait - Heart Attack & Vine
(1990s) Eric Clapton - Change The World, Bluezeum - Can I Get That Funk
(2000s) Aguilera/Nelly - Tilt Your Head, Timbaland - The Way I Are

That's 7 decades or 70 years of great WCS music. The selection covers a range of jazz, blues, soul, r&b, disco, funk, hip/hop and pop. It wouldn't take me long to find a good WCS song from the 30s. In 2 years it'll be the 2010s, that will be 90 years of good WCS music! GOOD SWING MUSIC IS TIMELESS, REGARDLESS OF THE ERA OR THE STYLE.

If you ask someone what makes jazz, jazz or swing, swing, they might have a hard time putting it into concrete terms but they'll tell you that they know it when they hear it. When you watch a pro level lindy hop jack & jill, all the pros start stomping their feet & clapping their hands when a good song comes on. If you hear a good blues, funk, r&b, or hip-hop song you can't help but but start tapping your foot or shaking your booty. Why? Because the one thing that makes jazz, blues, and other music good swing music is the beat, THAT FANTASTIC BEAT! The beat has to have that SYNCOPATED, STRETCHY, ROLLING, SHUFFLE rhythm that originated out of the jazz & swing music of the first half of the 20th century.

All good swing music has that beat to some extent. Of course it doesn't hurt if the song has a catchy melody and strong musical elements like breaks & accents to play with.

Unfortunately, most younger members & younger DJs of the WCS community have grown up listening to contemporary music on corporate radio. They haven't had much of an opportunity to listen to music that really swings - jazz & the blues. Because they haven't listened to true swing music, they play the music they know, the music they think is ok for swing dancing. It's not wrong or bad (well, actually it is). It's the downside of a lack of exposure to the music that started lindy hop & west coast swing.

Over the last few months I've heard Alicia Keys new song "No One" played a few times at weekend events. THAT SONG DOES NOT SWING! There's nothing about it that swings. It has a very hard, flat, boring beat. I have to resist the urge to go up to the dj and hit the next button on their CD player or laptop. The song is fine to listen to but it sucks as a swing dance song. Fortunately, the Black-Eyed-Peas "My Humps" quickly fell out of the WCS DJ rotation. It's a funny song, but it sucks for swing dancing. Over the last couple of years it seems like more & more DJs are playing more & more contemporary music that does not swing. When I can't stand the contemporary mix anymore I ask the DJ to play a blues song or a classic WCS song as a way to break the DJ out of the contemporary mode.

Somehow we need to educate the newer members of the WCS community that contemporary music can be good WCS music as long as it swings! It has to have the beat that I described earlier. The veterans of the WCS community somehow need to educate or guide the younger members on what makes a good WCS song.

Zak

[CALI DOLL]

Nothing better, to me, than groovin to a slow, sexy song.

Ditto!

...if I had seen what I've seen on old videos of WCS, I wouldn't be doing it. The bounciness of it, well...no comment!

And ditto again! :shades: I wasn't interested in learning WCS when I was first exposed to it in 2006 (happy-go-lucky and bouncy etc), but when I attended Bill's 2006/2007 NYE convention in MA, I was hooked. WCS is much more than I had realized early on. I also love dancing it to hip hop. But yeah, the slow and sexy songs are perfection (Ain't No Sunshine = LOVE).

[coastswing]

A little variety will go a long way. There's views from all sides of the spectrum of what people like in this forum alone, it's a pretty good indication of why there's a mix out there today.

I think I came into this dance about the time when it started shifting more contemporary. Yet the contemporary songs were the ones that Zak referred to as still having great swing beats. Perhaps that was a Pandora's Box. The core seems to have shifted to being more heavy on the songs that are great if you want to do interpretive dancing, but lend to less and less swing.

I see quite a bit of dancing where it looks like all people want to do is hit every toot, boom and bang they can. It looks like a lot of work...and often times looks like there are two people dancing solo while holding hands. When I was younger, that kind of stuff was great if there were glow sticks, booze, E and strobe lights involved (partner not necessary....until the booze/E kicked in).

[vegas4x4]

I've seen this topic come up a lot lately for some reason and as a younger dancer I always get a bad taste in my mouth when other (almost always older) dancers "remind" me that we shouldn't be dancing to whatever contemporary song is playing because it doesn't swing. Perhaps I am not at a point in my dancing where I can appreciate it as much as a more experienced dancer, but I enjoy dancing to Timbaland's "The Way I Are" (non-swinging beat) as much as I do Brother Yusef's "I've Got The Blues" (swinging beat). While I can usually hear the swinging of the beat, that's never influenced my desire to dance to a song. Although I can hear a hustle beat or cha cha beat and it can be painful to dance to those types of songs.

A huge part of the attraction to WCS was the wide variety of music that it could be danced to and the fact that I could dance WCS in a club where my friends were freestyling. I also love dancing to a lot of oldies, blues, and jazz songs as well.

My overall feeling is that some older dancers just don't like contemporary music and will look for any reason to suggest why it should not be played. On the flip side I rarely hear my younger friends suggest that the oldies, blues, jazz not be played just because they don't like to dance to some if it. I find the oldies, blues, and jazz stuff that I do like (which there is plenty) and request those.

I agree that a good mix is best, which will include some songs that I flat don't like to dance to and that is OK, you won't find me out complaining (unless it is a really disproportionate amount of some type of music) and even if I am complaining, I simply won't attend events/dances with that DJ anymore. I'm just getting tired of hearing older dancers complain about contemporary music when the argument could just as easily be turned around to complain about whatever type of music they happen to like. For me, and I realize this is my personal opinion, the "music doesn't swing" is a red herring and I think even if the music did swing, they would still be complaining the music is too fast/slow, too many/not enough accents, etc.

OK, now you can string me up and tear me to pieces! :)

[christina]

I'll take the bait.

On the flip side to your argument - I hear more people complain about the blues, R&B, oldies than I do the contemporary. I hear plenty of dancers - young and old (in both years and experience) who will boycott a dance or DJ because the music is "old and boring".

It goes both ways and its not just older dancers or people who don't like contemporary music.

Additionally, it's not just older dancers who complain about your specific example. I am not an old dancer - in age or experience. But when I go to a swing dance, I want music that swings. If I want to listen or dance to "Apologize" or "The Way that I Are" then I'll go some place else where I feel that music more suited.

I also take issue with the term contemporary. There's a song I love to dance to right now "Love You I Do" by Jennifer Hudson from DreamGirls. It swings. And it is contemporary - it was written specifically for the recent movie. The term "contemporary" is really a reference to current music - at some point, all music has been contemporary. And there is contemporary music that swings and contemporary music that doesn't.

If you're going to use the term than there should be a year-range of contemporary vs oldies - regardless if it could be classified as blues, rock & roll, R&B, etc.

For me personally, there is a feel to the dance that comes from music that swings - it gets me excited and ready to get on the dance floor. A dance to "Up a Lazy River" by Bobby Darin is going to feel very different from a dance to "SexyBack" by Justin Timberlake even if we were to execute the same moves to both songs. The drive in the music changes the shape of the dance.

It's always disappointing to me that we claim to do such a versatile dance thanks to the music, but when a song with a really swingin' drive comes on, I look around a room and am rarely excited to ask someone to dance knowing that 90% of my potential partners are so immersed in non-swinging music that the feel would be missing regardless of the song. As a result, I have a few key people that I will ask to dance on those swingin' songs. And it does at times make me come off as a snob in partner choice. But since I seem to hear those songs so rarely (despite the versatile mix) I want the most out of them.

[kansas49er]

For what it's worth, and that is not very much, I much prefer blues or other music that swings. I don;t see Hip Hop as swingdance music, or for that matter, country and western. I do know that you can dance wcs to either, but I am just personally not interested. Too Much of either one at a venue, and I find another venue. I want good blues, and some comtemporary that swings. I will take a little bump, bump,bump, bump, music, because a little can be fun, but it doesn;t take a lot to be too much. Of course, my thoughts are limited. I do not attend that many events, and I have 1 years dance experience 4x. The reaons for that are irrevelant to the discusison, but it's true, and bears relevance on the music I can enjoy.
Anyway, just my one cent worth.

By the way, I have seen a "version" of wcs done to waltz music. It just ain;t right.

[SoundInMotionDJ]

It's always disappointing to me that we claim to do such a versatile dance thanks to the music, but when a song with a really swingin' drive comes on, I look around a room and am rarely excited to ask someone to dance knowing that 90% of my potential partners are so immersed in non-swinging music that the feel would be missing regardless of the song. As a result, I have a few key people that I will ask to dance on those swingin' songs. And it does at times make me come off as a snob in partner choice. But since I seem to hear those songs so rarely (despite the versatile mix) I want the most out of them.

And that defines the chicken & egg problem. From the DJ both I'll see Christina and think "...Ooooo, Christina is here. She *loves* songs with a really good swing feel. I'll play one just for her...." Then Christina can't find a partner, and sits out the song I just played for her! Well...it's gonna be a good looooooooong time until I play another "swing" song - cuz that last one cleared the floor. At least everyone got a 1 song break to hit the bar or use the restroom.

And so it goes.

As much as we all like a mix, we all still pick and choose our favorites out of the mix. Have you ever know a bowl of everyone's favorite snack - chex mix with peanuts, pretzels, goldfish, and those little bagle chips not to wind up a bowl of chex cereal by the end of the evening?

I like a mix...but there are probably 20 genres of music that I want in my WCS mix. If you make the mix 1/3 of genre #1, 1/3 of genre #2, and 1/3 everything else...then I'm only going to get to hear genre #20 about once a night. And that might not be enough.

In general, mixes don't work. I much prefer to think in terms of "theme nights" or "theme sets." I'd much rather hear an awesome set of something that's not my favorite once a month or so than to hear 1 or two songs that don't really fit with the rest of the music - all in the name of the almighty "mix."

--Stan Graves

[Dima]

In general, mixes don't work. I much prefer to think in terms of "theme nights" or "theme sets." I'd much rather hear an awesome set of something that's not my favorite once a month or so than to hear 1 or two songs that don't really fit with the rest of the music - all in the name of the almighty "mix."

I'd have to disagree with you Stan. I'd rather hear and play a mix unless there's a theme night. You are correct, they don't work 100% of the time, but as a DJ it's your job to make it work :) And if you pull it off, you get bragging rights. Kind of like putting together a puzzle...

[SoundInMotionDJ]

I'd have to disagree with you Stan. I'd rather hear and play a mix unless there's a theme night. You are correct, they don't work 100% of the time, but as a DJ it's your job to make it work :) And if you pull it off, you get bragging rights. Kind of like putting together a puzzle...

Perhaps you mis understood my point. No DJ I know (and no group of dancers I know) would actually like to have a mix of ALL the genres of music that people can dance WCS to in a single night! There are choices to exclude a lot of music from any given set. That is a "Good Thing(tm)".

Whatever the "foundation" music from your area, the "other" stuff should be varied from week to week. I find that it is better to highlight the "other" music with a "theme" than to attempt even coverage. Think in terms of a "mix" that can take 6 to 8 weeks to reach an "even" blend...

The music that I like for WCS covers a lot of genres: blues, R&B, soul, funk, disco, 80's, pop, motown, oldies, classic rock, jazz, big band, dance, electronica, and even country (oh the horrors!) - I'm sure I'm leaving a few out... Have you ever heard a "mix" that included all that in a single night? (Would you want to?)

Oh, and I also like to do other dances...can I get that into the mix too? (Maybe that's another night...)

--Stan Graves

[Dima]

Yes, I misunderstood your point. I see at least 3 or 4 genres on that list that I just avoid playing.